Abundance in the Rockies

Transcript

0:00 Welcome to Radio Abundance, a podcast by YIMBY Democrats for America. It's time to build again, folks. Fascism never made America great, but when progressives build, that's where you'll find American greatness. This week marks our 10-week anniversary, so we're commemorating it with five very special episodes, one episode a day, all week, starting with tonight's very special episode featuring two interviews with Colorado Governor Jared Polis, one from the fall and one from today. On tonight's Radio Abundance, you'll hear all about what we've accomplished in our first 10 weeks, what we've built, and what we're building. And what are we building? Why, Progressive Abundance, of course. Progressive Abundance to build America and defeat fascism. So thanks for listening, and welcome to this special 10-week anniversary episode of Radio Abundance by YIMBY Democrats for America.

0:54 You're listening to Radio Abundance, a podcast by YIMBY Democrats for America. Now let's get to the show. Please welcome your host for the evening, YIMBY Democrats for America Executive Director Steve Boyle. And to kick things off, here's Steve. I'm Donald J. Trump, and I hate these guys.

1:12 Hello, America. My name is Steve Boyle. I'm the Executive Director of YIMBY Democrats for America, and I am so excited to be with you today. This is a special episode. This is a special week because this week marks our 10-week anniversary. We launched YIMBY Democrats for America to the world on Wednesday, March 26th, 2025. That is less than 10 weeks ago. Our first episode of Radio Abundance, this podcast, launched on Tuesday, April 8th, 2025. That's less than eight weeks ago. And in that time, we have done a hell of a lot. You know, we've sat down with folks like Maryland Governor Wes Moore, U.S. Congressman Jake Auchincloss, U.S. Congressman Robert Garcia, U.S. Congressman Scott Peters, U.S. Congresswoman Laura Friedman, Colorado Governor Jared Polis, California Attorney General Rob Bonta, Jersey City Mayor Stephen Fulop, New York City mayoral candidate Zellner Myrie, author Mark Dunkelman, economist Daryl Fairweather, A trio of amazing representatives from Arizona, Annalise Ortiz, Sarah Liguori, and Ana Hernandez, with so much more in store.

2:23 You know, less than 10 weeks ago, we launched YIMBY Democrats for America with a bold mission to build America, to defeat fascism, to unleash what we call Progressive Abundance. And these are bold cries. And some people said they were a little too bold. But all of these phrases, all of these missions, these callings, these North Stars of ours, this exact wording made it this week to The Wall Street Journal. Reporter Molly Ball recently traveled to San Francisco to cover an event we hosted and to sit down with us for an interview. You know, a few weeks ago, spurred on by Inclusive Abundance and Derek Kaufman, and with a promise of their support and sponsorship, YIMBY Democrats for America set out to build an abundance happy hour in San Francisco.

3:12 Oh, in about two weeks time, in two weeks. So big event, planning it in two weeks. You know, it was our first ever in-person event anywhere. And the community, including you, answered the call. Ten organizations stepped up to co-produce the event. You know, Inclusive Abundance sponsored the venue, the bar, the decor, the whole event, a live podcast taping of Radio Abundance. The Bay Area New Liberals, part of the Center for New Liberalism, which is in self part of PPI, the Progressive Policy Institute, stepped up to sponsor food. YIMBY Action and SF YIMBY joined in and turned out their people. The San Francisco Democratic Party itself became our partner, which would have been unfathomable just one year ago. Abundance Network, the founders of the Abundance Elected Network for leaders and elected officials, joined the fun, led by Giselle Hale, one of San Francisco's leading local Democratic clubs.

4:08 In fact, the United Democratic Club joined in, as did the Housing Action Coalition and the Breakthrough Institute, and the public responded as well. More than 300 people RSVP'd in just two weeks. We had hundreds of people there. We had to cap registration because we more than sold out. So, with just a few days' notice, the Wall Street Journal decided to fly out to make our event the centerpiece of a new article, a trend story on the Abundance Movement within the Democratic Party, featuring interviews and quotes with Ezra Klein, with Congressman Josh Harder, who recently founded the new Build America Caucus. We love the name. With Ro Khanna, the United States congressman from California, who was a co-chair for Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign, with Nancy Tung, the chairwoman of the San Francisco Democratic Party, and with us.

5:01 So, the Wall Street Journal met us for a bite and a stroll on what turned out to be a beautiful sunny afternoon, with the sky breaking after a morning of drizzling gray rain for us to walk around in the sunshine, and my favorite park in the world, Dolores Park, in the Mission District of San Francisco. You know, Dolores Park is where San Francisco's cultures collide. It is all there. The counterculture of San Francisco from Haight-Ashbury and beyond, the Latino culture of the Mission District, named for Mission Dolores, the queer culture of the Castro District, which abuts Dolores Park and makes its home at the top southwest corner of the park, the peak of a hill with gorgeous views overlooking the skyline and the bay, and on a clear day, the hills and cranes of Oakland, where San Franciscans lounge in the sun on blankets on a patch of grass they've named the Gay Beach.

5:54 All across the park, San Franciscans picnic and relax. The grass is covered in blankets and people as folks dodge young startup entrepreneurs pitching their companies to the relaxing multitudes. And as folks enjoying the day hail the hawkers of a gray economy, who run the roving market stalls from which they sell anything from coconuts to margaritas to things to eat and, yeah, sometimes psychedelics. So I was here in and around Dolores Park that we talked to the Wall Street Journal and from where they pulled this section of the article, and I'm quoting, as Democrats grope for a way forward in the wake of their 2024 election loss, advocates hope the party can present a new vision for the future by embracing the book's call to streamline housing, transit, energy and scientific research.

6:45 I want the 2028 primaries and the presidential race to be about who is for Progressive Abundance. Steve M. Boyle, one of San Francisco Happy Hour's organizers and the executive director of the newly formed Yimby Democrats for America, said in an interview, proving that government can improve people's lives, he argued, is the only way to prevent voters from turning to authoritarian strongmen. Talking about 2028 is getting way ahead of ourselves. However, first, there is the simple matter of defeating a fascist takeover, which is why we are so thrilled that the article continued with our happy hour that night. The Wall Street Journal came early and they closed the place down, talking to the throngs and the crowds that attended as the Wall Street Journal writes, the abundance happy hour in San Francisco drew a sold out crowd in San Francisco's mission district. Hundreds gathered on a weeknight this month to mingle with fellow devotees, banners at the gathering read, build America, defeat fascism.

7:48 So, less than 10 weeks after launching with a mission to build America and defeat fascism to unleash Progressive Abundance, here those three phrases are, build America, defeat fascism, Progressive Abundance. They are front and center in the Wall Street Journal, next to Ezra Klein, next to the founder of the brand new and aptly named Build America Caucus, next to the San Francisco Democratic Party, and next to one more phrase, Yimby Democrats for America. Folks, we have arrived. Today's episode is our first to feature just one guest, Colorado Governor Jared Polis, but we're featuring two different interviews with him, one from the fall and one from today. Last summer, a movement arose overnight, it seems, as legions of Yimby's who were also Democrats, Democrats who were also Yimby's, many folks already gathered, already identified, already known, but who never had a home for those two ideas at once. And who longed more than anything to defeat Donald Trump and deny him a return to office rallied around the movement, Yimby's for Harris. Not only did hundreds join a WhatsApp group and scores of prominent Yimby's from governors and senators to authors and pundits, over 70 speakers in total join the movement and speak at our events, but more than 30,000 people tuned in live to watch our first event as we raised more than $130,000 in one night. You know, I was in honored to be invited a bit out of the blue to join that crew and further honored when I asked for and was given the opportunity to build out our production, create the full production, design the aesthetics, host the live stream, produce the technical and design elements of that event. I remember creating a video for that event and having a person who tests messaging for democratic campaigns write me afterwards to say they'd run the video through their system and it had tested 96th percentile for persuasiveness. Maybe not surprising when you consider that Kamala Harris's promise to build 3 million more homes and lower the cost of living was her best performing message of the whole campaign. So after this first event, we had literally governors writing to us to ask, when's the next one? How do I get involved? Uh, but the group that had rallied had rallied to build one event. Uh, it had been a smashing success, but no one had bandwidth for more. Uh, I pitched an idea for a next event team got started, but, uh, while I was traveling in India and mounting a theatrical production there, things kind of went in reverse and, uh, the event ended up, uh, being canceled before being announced and the elected officials were all released. So when I returned from India, I, uh, I volunteered this, there was still time left to make a difference in this election.

10:33 We had everything we needed in terms of support and buy-in. Uh, I just raised over a hundred thousand dollars myself for the Kamala Harris campaign, uh, from strangers I had never met before by hosting interactive games, get this, of Dungeons and Dragons, uh, where donations to play along and vote to shape the course of the game went straight to the campaign. And in a few weeks it had gone from a kind of a wild and strange pipe dream, uh, to us, uh, not only raising more than a hundred K, but also even hosting, uh, Sean Astin, who played Samwise Gamgee and the Lord of the Rings for his first ever game, uh, live as a fundraiser, even, even our very first game, uh, outraised events, uh, featuring legends like, uh, you know, Mark Ruffalo and Robert De Niro and Nancy Pelosi. And, you know, my whole life had been event building and networking. And now elected officials would answer our emails. They'd talk to us.

11:23 So I volunteered this suggestion. If no one else had bandwidth, that was fine. That needn't stop us from making the difference in the impact we wanted to make with a few emails. I could get us some more big events, uh, maybe interviews this time with key elected officials, all focused exclusively on housing and YIMBY issues. And of course defeating Donald Trump. And we could turn those interviews into mobilization for phone banking and tens of thousands of calls. So that's what brought us into YIMBYs for Harris phase two. And that was the context in which we first sat down with Colorado governor Jared Polis, uh, thank you so much for being here with us tonight, uh, and giving your time to this cause. Really appreciate it. Um, it's great to join you. I'm so excited to all these volunteers. Let's get it done.

12:12 A few questions for you. Uh, you know, you joined us at our very first YIMBYs for Harris rally. Uh, you talked about your work as, as the governor in building more housing, uh, removing what you called artificial barriers, you know, reforming zoning, planning around transit, legalizing ADUs, eliminating parking requirements. And before we get, uh, to what you've accomplished, I'm just curious, like broadly speaking, what are your goals on, on housing policy and, and more to the point, why, why make it easier to build more housing? What will the impact be? What will that achieve? And how did you come to that point of view? Well, it's really so people can afford to live and thrive in Colorado or across the country. Uh, we know, you know, you all remember if you went to college economics, one-on-one, the price of something is a function of supply and demand. Um, you can make the price go down by reducing command demand and making your city or state crappy. So no one wants to live there, but that's not the way you want to do it. You like the demand is high. Demand is high in Colorado.

13:06 It's because people want to live here. It's wonderful. But when you have artificial constraints on supply and don't allow homes to be built, boom, uh, prices go up. And that's what happened here. It's what happened in a lot of places. So let's get rid of those barriers, allow the supply to catch up, bring prices down to close to the replacement value, which, you know, and you have home, the average, um, home prices that I've ever mentioned right now is $600,000. Building one is probably more like $200,000. So there's a big delta there that in the land obviously cost money too, but like we should be able to bring the cost down considerably on new houses so people can afford them, build wealth, have a place to live, have ownership. Amazing. Uh, what should folks at home know about the work you've done in Colorado so far? And, and what are you, what are you cooking up for the next few years? We, uh, we, uh, made it easier to build accessory dwelling units by right. We got rid of parking requirements. These are often imposed by cities, more parking than people want. Let the market determine, you know, whether you need one parking spot or two, or even zero. If you don't need one, it adds 40,000 to the cost of the unit and reduces the number of units that can be built.

14:07 We also did a zoning state zoning template effectively for multi-family zoning near within half a mile of transit hubs. We're really invested in transit. I was at one of our new transit hubs in Loveland yesterday. We're very excited about delivering front range passenger rail, as well as great bus service, but also the opportunity to live next to it. So again, a family of four might have one car instead of two. Why pay for that extra parking spot? You know, get to work, uh, when you want, uh, buy a train or bus and you might have a car to go to the mountains on weekends. Fine. But like, how do you get that lifestyle built for more people? Nice. And what impact can the federal government have, uh, on a place like Colorado? There's a lot of levers that federal government has to increase supply and, uh, we need them. Nice. Um, you know, everyone wants a home, right? Everyone wants lower rents, the opportunity to build wealth. We're on this call because as you just said, uh, we know how the constraints in the supply of housing distort market, raise the cost to rent, raise the cost to become a first-time homeowner, but we know that, you know, sometimes people look at a new housing, you know, whether that's a hundred percent affordable public housing or whether that's a sleek new luxury tower. And they, they wonder how does this, this help me, right? Will this new construction, will it cause gentrification? Might it cause displacement? Might it lower my home values? So I'm curious, you know, when you encounter these sort of counter arguments, fears, concerns, how do you communicate with, with folks about the need to build more housing who have these worries?

15:30 Yeah. So first of all, like having the accessory dwelling unit on your property and renting it out is great for the current owner doesn't in any way detract from the neighbor's property values. In fact, it can increase it. And here's why is everybody who might be a buyer there knows that they can create a new income stream by creating a accessory dwelling unit as a rental. And so that can create, um, uh, additional, uh, value in, in property. Just even if you choose not to build it, the fact that you can build it and that your buyer knows that you can build it can increase value. So that's exciting. We also know that duplexes, quadplexes demonstrated time and time again, do not have any negative impact. And in fact, by activating the neighborhood and making it safer with more people, uh, you can actually increase the value you get of, of existing homeowners. So I, I, I, I certainly, certainly hear those concerns from time to time, but data is, data does not bear them out.

16:21 Thank you. You know, we're in the, the very final days of, of the election. So of all the, of all the stakes, this election, I'm, I'm curious, what's, what's top of mind for you? Uh, well, everything, uh, you know, everything, right. I mean, obviously I care deeply about our democracy, about free market capitalism, all of these things. And I, uh, don't want to see the country go in a very dangerous authoritarian direction. You saw what, you know, John Kelly, uh, I recently said about Donald Trump wanting his generals to be like Hitler's and, um, you know, this is somebody who fundamentally didn't respect the outcome of the last election. Uh, he still does not acknowledge the outcome of the last election. So, you know, the importance of this election is above and beyond policy. I mean, we'll always overcome policy, but the health of our democracy is so important. That was our first interview with Governor Polis from all the way back in October of 2024 in the heat of the presidential election season. You know, Governor Polis closed by talking about the dangers of reelecting president Trump. He noted that Trump's chief of staff, the diehard Republican, John Kelly had said that Trump could accurately be labeled a fascist, that he would govern as a dictator, that he wanted his generals to be loyal to him alone, like Hitler's generals. Governor Polis noted that Donald Trump does not respect free and fair elections. He does not believe he must abide by them. He does not think your vote should count if it's not for him. And he had no problem mobilizing militias to this purpose. Who can forget his words in front of the nation?

17:55 Proud Boys stand back and stand by. And they did stand by, waiting until their call to action came. The stochastic call to rally and for these violent, radical white supremacist terrorist militias to descend upon Washington, D.C. to lead a violent insurrection aimed at the heart of Democratic government president, with a mission to kill the vice president of the United States, to string up the representatives of the people on lampposts, to stop them from recognizing the results of a free and fair election, to throw out your vote. And your vote is so important. And that's why YIMBY Democrats for America has made it one of our missions to raise as often as we can the specter of the 2030 census, which will be decided in 2025. You know, every 10 years, the United States conducts an official census. You know this. They measure who lives where. And then that census is used to decide how districts are apportioned. That census decides how the House of Representatives is structured and it decides how many electoral college votes every state gets. Compared to red states, blue states have been bleeding population. Even as blue states grow, they have grown far, far slower than red states as residents seek lower rents and more opportunities elsewhere. And that means that when our next census hits, when the 2030 census comes, states like California and New York, but also Illinois and Oregon, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, these states will lose electoral votes. California will lose five. New York will lose three. Meanwhile, Texas gains four. Florida gains four. Tennessee gains.

19:48 Utah gains. That means that once 2030 hits, if these population trends are not reversed, then in the presidential elections of 2032, 2036, and 2040, Democrats will be able to win every state they won to win the presidency in 2020, sweep the famed and vaunted blue wall, and lose every election for at least a dozen years. If that happens, if Democrats are locked out of power by an ascendant fascist MAGA movement, then even if there is a free affair election in 2028, and even if Democrats win the presidency in 2028, then for the dozen years that follow 2032, we'll hand power back to MAGA. And at that point, if they rule for more than a decade, I simply think they will make their rule permanent.

20:39 I do not think we will get a reprieve from the 2040 census and the 2044 presidential race. I do not know if we will have a 2044 presidential race. The 2030 census might just be our referendum on American democracy. The census itself, the counting, not just of votes, but of voters, becomes a Brexit style decision. Will America be a democracy? Or will America choose MAGA fascism for its next epoch? And yet this vote will not take place in 2030. It takes place this year. It takes time not only to pass pro-housing legislation, it also takes time to build the housing. It just takes time. It takes time for people to decide to move, to find a place, to decide a blue state is where they want to move to. It takes time for rents to fall. We have to surge our population now. If we have five years less to reverse population trends and give hope to American democracy, then we need to pass the laws that build more housing and welcome new residents now, not in 2030, not in 2029 and not in 2026. But now here in 2025, the crisis is here and the choice is here as well.

22:00 Since entering office for a second time, Donald Trump has taken control, enacting a campaign of lawlessness and cruelty. His cuts to USAID and PEPFAR will kill millions worldwide. A silent Holocaust as the food and medicine needed to save millions of lives and already purchased sits rotting nearby. Why? Trump is sending shock troops to snatch people off the streets. Plainclothes, masked officers have stuffed dissidents into vans and shipped innocent folks to Salvadoran concentration camps, not only without trial, but without recourse, even when their innocence is acknowledged and even when the courts demand their return.

22:46 Unless you think this is a punishment reserved for illegal immigrants. And of course, if there are no trials, then any of us can become illegal immigrants if Donald Trump says so. Know that Donald Trump is also deporting legal residents. Unless you think that being a citizen, you are safe. Donald Trump is also rounding up and deporting U.S. citizens. Today, they are children. Today, they are children.

23:12 But what will you say when he begins deporting U.S. citizens who are adults? What will you say when citizens wind up in Salvadoran concentration camps? Trump told El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele to build more prisons for what he called homegrowns. Who do you think is going to fill them? What will you say when Trump begins arresting Democratic elected officials he believes are standing in the way of his roundups? This is a question already answered because Trump has already begun arresting Democratic officials, Democratic electeds, Democratic lawmakers that he sees as enemies thwarting his fight to stop what he believes is an invasion.

23:58 An invasion of people who want to be Americans, an invasion of people who are already Americans. So we must defeat fascism. And to do that, we must build America. We must give America hope and prove that blue states have the right idea, are a real alternative, and are the true path to American greatness. And that is what YIMBY Democrats for America is here to do. Ten weeks ago, when we launched YIMBY Democrats for America as the heartbeat of a thriving and burgeoning community of folks who are both lifelong Democrats and progressives and also dearly want to build, to build more homes, to build the next chapter of America, to realize the dream of putting a roof over everyone's heads, to lower rents for everyone, to build abundant, clean energy and save the planet from climate change, to build abundant public transportation, to build abundant public transportation, in short, to make good on more than a century's worth of longstanding progressive goals and progressive dreams that we have everything in our power to realize.

25:01 Everything but permission. We at YIMBY Democrats for America, we want to see citizens and governments alike unfettered and unshackled in their pursuit of creation as they deliver for the public. Governments building homes and green energy and parks and public transportation and pedestrian streets and public plazas for the public good. Citizens building homes and green energy and following their passions and their dreams and their big ideas and taking on the initiative to create, delivering what the public needs without taxpayer dollars or compulsion, and allowing the market, which is to say allowing the citizenry in the aggregate, to decide what new ideas are right for them and what innovative solutions can rise to the top.

25:47 When governments and citizens alike can build, not only can we solve problems much faster, solving them both by creating collectively at scale and by empowering the creative anarchy of individual ingenuity, governments and citizens also can learn from each other, innovate together, accelerate not just creation, but the wisdom and affordability with which we create. That's our dream, and we call it Progressive Abundance. Progressive Abundance means a world where the government and the citizenry alike are empowered to provide the core essentials of life, a home, a roof, a job, a park, a place to shower, an easy way to get to work and friends, venues for civic life, parks and squares and plazas, where people can exist without paying money, to meet their friends, to make new friends, to be with their community, to stitch our fractured society back together by being together, we can build a world where governments are free, empowered and inspired to build these essentials so that they are guaranteed for everyone, not just available, but guaranteed.

26:51 As much a bedrock of American society as any of our fundamental rights, we can build a world where citizens are free, empowered and inspired to build these essentials even faster and in their own way, elevating what these essentials could be and feel like to experience, elevating what we even consider to be an essential. You know, a hundred years ago, most Americans used outhouses instead of indoor flush toilets. Most Americans had no indoor plumbing, no showers, no baths. Less than one in ten Americans had access to a refrigerator. Only about half of all Americans had clean water. Only about half of all Americans had electricity. That was in 1925. Today, I think in 2025, we would consider flush toilets, indoor plumbing, refrigerators, clean water, electricity to be essentials for life.

27:44 You know, today we scoff at luxury apartments, quote unquote. They're not for us, we cry. But what is a luxury apartment in this marketing term? Well, it's a building in a desirable area. Maybe it has washers and dryers, maybe a dishwasher, perhaps some common amenities, a gym to work out in, a lounge to do work in, and maybe spend time with your friends. Are these luxuries or can they be expanded to everyone so that today's luxuries are tomorrow's expectations, tomorrow's guaranteed essentials? Well, yes, they can. But these amenities can only be available to everyone if we build enough of them for everyone. Folks, we need to build, and we can build. Yes, we can build.

28:31 As Congresswoman Laura Friedman told us on last week's episode of Radio Abundance. It's doable. We can do it. We have the vision. We've got the architects. We've got the will. Abundance for all. A world where we all rise together and lift up everyone. A world of public abundance. That's what we call Progressive Abundance. That's not the only mission of Yimby Democrats for America. Our two missions, build America and defeat fascism. And we believe we cannot do one without the other. We cannot defeat fascism and trump the Trump and thwart MAGA's rise or offer an alternative to strongmen and woo citizens back to civic life and community and optimism. If Democrats don't prove that we can build, that we can govern better, create better, that we can build a better world, better America, a better future than Donald fucking Trump.

29:25 So you may consider this a bake-off. It is Democratic states building versus whatever it is Trump is doing. And America will compare the results. To defeat fascism, build America. But we also cannot build America without defeating fascism. There's many Americans who thought we could. For many, it's why they voted for Donald Trump. It's certainly how he wooed Silicon Valley. Many thought that a Trump administration would be their ticket to build. But it turns out that erratic protectionist fascists do not make good partners. You cannot build when your government is erecting walls around your nation and around your nation's economy. You cannot build when the rule of law is in flux, broken, arbitrary, changing day by day. You cannot build when a mad tyrant makes up the rules as he goes along, a command-and-control economy meeting an impulsive policy by the pharaoh's whims economy to conspire that nothing gets done.

30:23 There is, of course, a better way. The IMB Democrats for America recently sat down again with Colorado Governor Jared Polis to talk about Trump's destruction, but mostly to talk about what he's doing to build out the alternatives in his home state of Colorado. Governor Polis, thank you so much for joining us today on Radio Abundance. A pleasure to be with you. You know, we spoke during IMB's for Harris. It was super exciting. You were a huge supporter. And by that same token, I think we're a huge supporter of you and the way that you have, I think in a lot of ways, led the path and kind of blazed the trail for the Democratic Party in terms of what it means to build all types of housing in Colorado. Those were perhaps more optimistic days. I think it's safe to say that a lot's changed in American life since then.

31:09 And I'm curious, as a governor of a blue state right now, how has your role and your life changed since the election? Yeah, we were all very excited about electing our, you know, first IMB president. And Kamala Harris had great and very ambitious plans to unleash housing.

31:27 You know, Willie, at the state, there's more you can even do than the federal government, right? So the fundamental tension that prevents housing from being built is generally local land use regs. And so that is kind of the area where we have made, you know, we, for instance, allow accessory dwelling units by right. We've eliminated local government from imposing parking requirements on new apartments. They can instead allow the amount of parking to meet the market and the demand. And we're pursuing a lot more going forward. We did multifamily zoning and transit ordinaries. So so I what I would the short answer is it's not highly affected by what goes on in Washington. It was always nice to have an assist from there. But generally speaking, it's more of the tension between local and state.

32:15 You know, we talk a lot about the role of Democratic governors, blue state governors in building out and proving the case for the alternative to Trump by making their states more affordable, making their states more vibrant, making their states freer. Again, I think you've set the tone in a lot of ways. So I'm curious what you think other Democratic governors could learn from you and what you think the party needs to do and what you want to see from it in order to take the country back. Well, you know, people want to see good things happen, whether it's highways, whether it's transit, whether it's housing. And, you know, Democrats, of course, should not only not be standing in the way of of good things happening, but we should be in the forefront of helping make major improvements to our quality of life and making life more affordable. So unleashing housing by removing costly barriers to housing, right, allowing new transit and rail and roads to be built rather than years and years of review and circular firing squads.

33:12 I mean, these are things that fundamentally sabotage government and sabotage the good work we're doing. We need to deliver for people quickly and efficiently. And what's on the agenda for you next in Colorado in housing and transportation, in energy? What's the what's the next step looks like? Well, you covered a lot of different areas. I'll start with housing because it is such an important topic here. We are doing smart stair reform in our legislature to try to create more single stair units that save Coloradans money. We're breaking down barriers to modular housing. We're kind of rather than having the danger with prefab or modulars. Again, each jurisdiction could put their own requirement on it, and then you lose the very benefits of the economies of scale that allow it to be created at like 20, 30 percent less. So we're creating kind of a statewide way of certifying modular housing.

34:01 And then we're doing yes in God's backyard where we're freeing up faith-based institutions and their land as well as school districts from some of the onerous local land use requirements allowing them to build housing. So those are the three things we're working on now. Obviously, on energy, Colorado is a really energy-forward state. We're super excited about our state. The one I'm most excited about personally is geothermal energy. And we streamlined the geothermal process for approval for – and we basically look – our state has long been an oil and gas producing state. And so we basically said the way we approve oil wells is we're going to just approve geothermal wells the same way. And so we got around a lot of the, you know, years of review that could help if you don't have primacy for approval.

34:46 And we also have some tax credits around geothermal to help it get jump-started.

34:51 So around housing, one theme I've come up around gembiaism a lot recently, just because I'm 35 now, my friends are getting older, they're having kids. And that's something about, like, living in a city. It's like folks want to – once they have kids, they want a little more room. They want to own. So they tend to move out. And, like, gembiaism has been really oriented a lot about, like, multifamily rental. But I noticed you recently signed – or came out in support of a bill around construction defect reform for condos. And something I've been excited about is, like, gembiaism for homeownership. I'm curious if you could tell our audience a little bit about that. So, yeah, I'm very excited about construction defects reform. It's our second or third year that we've been trying to get this to. Basically, in Colorado, people are building apartments for rent instead of condos for sale because of liability requirements.

35:41 And so we love – and I love – homeownership, right? That's how you build equity. Today's buyer of a starter home, which may be somebody in their 30s or 20s, and maybe it's, you know, $250,000, $300,000. That might be, you know, 10 years from now, the person who can afford our average home person in our metro area is $600,000. So you're not going to get there unless you're building equity and building wealth. And what we have a lack of inventory on are starter homes, and that includes condos, which are less expensive generally than even small single-family plots. So we've made the dream of homeownership less attainable for people because it turns out the very hardest kind of home to get permanent and build are these less expensive starter homes. It's easier to build McMansions than it is to build starter homes in our state, and that alters the supply and demand towards the higher-end properties.

36:32 So we've really tried to unlock homes that are $200,000, $300,000. That could be modular, prefab, condos, accessory dwelling units, right? The first step is let them be built. Second step is how to subdivide and sell so somebody can purchase, for instance, even near an urban center, an accessory dwelling unit, which might be a $200,000 to $300,000 home and property rather than a $500,000, $700,000 property. Speaking about sort of moving that to the abundance issues broadly, I'm curious if you have, I'm sure you've heard of the bulk and stuff like that. How are you thinking about moving towards a broader agenda of abundance, and how do you think the Democratic Party should think about it? Yeah, it is really about opportunity.

37:17 It's about abundance. It's about how you can get government out of the way to let good things happen, how you can streamline bureaucracy. We're for things like, I mean, shot clocks on, meaning you have, you know, instead of cities sitting on, you know, applications, whether it's for restaurants or housing, there's cities even in our state, sadly, that have the reputation of taking months or years to improve things. That's bad, right? That's bad for the economy, bad for all of us. You know, there's nothing. If you're going to, why would you delay a restaurant 12 months from opening if they've met all the criteria, do it within 30 days? So I'm excited about, you know, moving forward with helping everyone succeed in our country. And I think that's what abundance and opportunity are all about. It's about making things happening and delivering.

38:03 As you think the new book on abundance, I imagine you're thinking, hey, I knew this and I'm all over it. So I'm curious, where do you go to read more about this kind of stuff? What's shaped and informed your world view that you recommend other people check out? Yeah, it's a great book. And I recommend it. And obviously a lot of horror stories from California and other places of what happens when you don't focus on delivery to focus on process instead. And, you know, at the end of the day, what people and the voters care about is delivering, right? I mean, of course, you have to have a process that's fair to all comers. You can't, like, you know, favor certain things. But it's got to be a quick, efficient process and not stand in the way of actually delivering what the people want, whether it's a new school, a new highway, a new rail project, whatever it is, new housing.

38:51 So, you know, we really need a sectoral analysis in all these areas. And, you know, I think it would be great to kind of look at what are some of the cutting edge policies the states, blue and red, are doing to help move the bar forward on prosperity for everyone. Yes. How did you come to your own, like, EMB journey? Like, how did you come to these ideas? Like, was there a moment early on in your career where you kind of got radicalized or? Yeah. Well, I think it's just sort of more obvious. We have to return to things that are obvious, like housing costs are high in Colorado. Anything, and you took, I took economics 101 in college. I'm sure you did too. Many people did. But very simple, even if you don't take economics 101, you know that pricing is a function of supply and demand of any good or product.

39:40 And so demand is high in Colorado. People want to live in a great place to live. That's great. We don't want to reduce pricing by reducing demand, by making our state suck, right? That's one way you can do it. But we don't want to do it that way. So what's the other way to do it? Increase supply. So you look at why is supply so limited? It turns out it's because many of our local governments make it very hard to build. They add time and cost and approval process and bureaucracy to the cost of building. So by streamlining that, we can increase quantity and demand being static and people wanting to live here, prices will come down. So it's a very sort of obvious thing when we were, you know, I said we have to tackle the prices of high home costs. It's like, okay, this is how we do it. I have like a, so I really want to get your thoughts on this.

40:26 So like when you go, when you talk about streamlining processes and things like that, what do you think about implementing AI to help streamline processes and streamline approval? Cause like, I'm assuming that like 90% of like permanent applications are just like really simple, open and shut type of things and they don't always need to have, be held in limbo. So do you have any thoughts about like, I think using like AI, other emerging tech to like, kind of like help speed along the process or like speed along approvals or even just like, even maybe something low tech, like front load a lot of the application requirements and then just approve anyone who needs them. Yeah, anything like that could be helpful, right? So if there's an application of AI that helps, you know, fill out or evaluate forms quicker and better, that would be a great example of, of how to do it.

41:19 So, I mean, just, you know, really anything that moves in that direction is great. And again, generally speaking, just showing, hey, we have, and this is what we showed in Colorado, we have an interjurisdictional state interest in more housing and we can't let any local government stand in the way. Of that housing from being built. This was a brand new, when we started this three years ago with our state legislature, it was a brand new discussion for them. They hadn't done a news reform since 1974. They were like, whoa, and we didn't succeed that first year. And so it really took, we're just sort of socializing what this is. Then coming back, we got it done. Now we're building on it every year to say, yeah, you know, this is how you can be responsive to your constituents about reducing housing costs and making living in Colorado more affordable. And, of course, technology and AI solutions could be part of that.

42:05 Can you tell us a little bit more about why you think it didn't work for the first time and what you learned and how you then overcame that over the next year? There were two big things that our bill didn't make the first year. One is that it was a brand new discussion with the legislature and they were, you know, hadn't done this in two generations on land use. Second was we tried to do it as an omnibus bill rather than several bills, you know, one for multifamily zoning, one for ADUs. And so when the omnibus failed the first year, it would have been nice. In the second year, we just broke them apart and they all won, but they had slightly different coalitions. I mean, overlapping coalitions, but there were people that were for ADUs, but not multifamily, for multifamily, but not ADUs. So it allowed people to kind of vote in different ways where we had a majority for each of them.

42:52 And you mentioned earlier wanting to learn from cutting edge policies in other states. I'm wondering what you might have seen in states red or blue where you thought, hey, that's pretty good. Damn, that's what we need in Colorado. Well, you know, Montana got some of this stuff done before us on multifamily zoning. California is doing some work. Now for them, it's, you know, 10 or 20 years later than they should have, right? Like it would, California would be a much more vibrant place that they've done some of these housing reforms 10 or 20 years ago. But yeah, we look to every state. This concept of yet in God's backyard is a great one that we hope to have the most robust implementation of. We actually include school districts as well. Many of our school districts own land. They want to build housing for teachers, for paraprofessionals. So it's, I think, the first state to really look at that.

43:39 So these aren't across the finish line yet. We're still working on them. But if we can get them done, we'll help make housing more affordable in Colorado and help our state succeed. Now, you mentioned, sorry, Michigan, Colorado being like a really high demand state. And you've done a lot of great reforms. I'm curious about, are there obstacles to making like particularly like really high demand cities like Denver and Boulder, like build significantly more? I mean, the prices are crazy. I imagine if it was possible to build more, there'd be like a huge appetite for it. Yeah, it's starting to happen because, again, now we have multifamily zoning in most of Denver and most of Boulder. We define it as, you know, I think within half a mile of regular bus service. So it's most of those cities have multifamily zoning by right, accessory dwelling units.

44:25 People are building them now and, you know, putting them out for rental. Again, I'd love to find an easier way to automatically allow for subdivision sale for some more of those starter homes. But like in housing, you know, when you pass a law, it doesn't change in three weeks, right? It takes years, not decades, but years to build the housing. But look, I look around at Denver Boulder, see a lot of cranes, see a lot of projects. There's a lot going on. And I think for the first time in decades, red prices were static in Denver and even down a lot over the last year or two with all the new inventory coming on. That's amazing. You know, it wasn't so long ago that Colorado was a red state and then it was a crucial swing state. And now it's pretty solidly blue. How do you think that happened? And what can we learn from that across the country?

45:12 Well, you know, I think it's important to focus on is delivering for people. How do you actually reduce costs? And we've cut the income tax three times. We've cut property taxes. We've removed barriers to housing. So, I mean, every little area that people have a challenge, how do you have a solution that helps people keep hold on to more of their hard-earned money?

45:36 You mentioned cutting taxes and, you know, I think it's it's I'm curious how you have managed to reduce the tax burden on citizens while still providing social services and achieving democratic and progressive objectives. How have you made things more efficient to still deliver on a leaner budget? Mostly, we had a significant budget surplus. And so what we did is we cut the income tax three times. When I came in, it was four point six, three percent at the ballot box. I supported in our state. A lot of policies happen in the ballot box. So the ballot box, we cut it to four point five. I supported that at the ballot box again, cut it to four point four. And then we finally got a bipartisan legislative deal to as low as four point two five.

46:22 It depends on the amount of the surplus. So we're strong fiscal health. I mean, you know, like a lot of states this year, we have some belt tightening because of the national winds. And we're certainly not immune to a recession caused by the huge tariff tax increase that the president is pushing. But generally speaking, we're in good fiscal shape and we're able to make sure that our taxpayers could hold on to more of their hard-earned money. You mentioned the potential recession from Trump's tariffs. We've seen him pluck folks off the streets and dump them to Salvadorian concentration camps. As you think about the economic impact of Trump's policies and as you think of the social and personal impact of Trump's policies, how are you preparing to defend Coloradans from the threats of the Trump administration?

47:09 Well, two frustrating areas for states is states don't have, under our Constitution, the authority under immigration or under international trade. So that resides with the federal government. The most disastrous economic policy is the tariff tax increase. Absolutely devastating, of course, to increase costs of people, increase the cost of people whose tariffs are passed along, but also discouraging investment. It'll destroy American manufacturing because much manufacturing that we do have relies on parts and materials that are sourced internationally. A lot of those factories are going to move overseas, especially to export for the global market, avoiding this high-tax, high-regulation jurisdiction of the United States. So it really is a great opportunity for abundance Democrats to lead in and say, let's break down trade barriers for made-in-America, grown-in-America products.

48:02 Let's work with farmers and ranchers to expand overseas markets. Let's make sure that made-in-America products are able to be sold everywhere, that you can get the parts and materials that you need, no matter where they originate in the world. We had a discussion with Wes Moore on a similar topic about moving away from this mid-entry tax and spend question, growth skeptical kind of thing. I think we're in this transition period where we're moving away from that into this abundance debt. So I wanted to get your thoughts about rebranding, kind of rebranding liberalism, progressivism to include things that would typically be considered conservative, like deregulation, and really focus it more on, like, less on the action itself and more on the impact of that action.

48:53 No, I mean, I really think that that's where Democrats have historically been. I mean, look at President Clinton and President Obama's leadership on trade. They worked very hard to break down barriers to expand markets overseas. The last serious attempt at cutting government waste and bureaucracy was Vice President Al Gore under President Clinton, reinventing government, a much more thoughtful and successful approach than, for instance, the current effort with Doge. And again, we sympathize with the goals of Doge, but it wasn't a particularly thoughtful way to go about it. Under President Clinton, Vice President Gore led a much more successful reinventing government initiative, reducing government waste, cutting bureaucracy, and they got a part of it implemented. I wish, you know, even more they got implemented. But yeah, Democrats should always run on reducing government waste, making government more efficient, cutting back wasteful expenditures.

49:42 These are all things that are actually critical, and they're consistent with how our successful presidents have really led the way in these areas. You know, you are the most efficient guest we've ever had, by the way, in terms of work density. Like, we went through more questions than with anybody else. I talked too bad. Sorry about that. No, it's great. It's really good. Yeah, I tried to get us more time, and your team was like, he's efficient. And I didn't totally believe it, but you're all over it. With that said, we do got to let you go in a second. And I realize this might not make the best audio content, but I would be remiss if I did not mention you are wearing a sweet jacket. Oh, thank you. That's my Colorado logo on it right there. Oh, look at that. Yeah.

50:27 I feel like it's very on brand for you as Colorado governor to be wearing outdoor gear. Yeah. Well, you know, we had beautiful spring weather the last few days. Today it's cooled off a little bit, so I'm wearing my color puffy. Oh, nice. Thank you, everybody. Well, looking good, doing good. Thanks for joining us on Video Abundance, Governor Polis. That was our interviews with Colorado Governor Jared Polis and the story of YIMBY Democrats for America. Since we've launched less than 10 weeks ago, we've heard from Congressman Scott Peters that we were the direct inspiration and catalyst for the Congressional YIMBY Caucus. And in a few short weeks after launching with the mission Build America and Defeat Fascism, not only is there a new congressional Build America caucus as well, but those words, Build America, Defeat Fascism, Progressive Abundance, have now made it to the front pages of the Wall Street Journal as they covered our sold-out debut event, A Culture of Abundance in San Francisco.

51:23 Make sure to check out the article and stay tuned all week for episodes celebrating our 10-week anniversary. And make sure to join YIMBY Democrats for America at YIMBY Democrats dot org slash join. That's it for us today. We'll leave you with a few words for us from Senator Elizabeth Warren. You've been listening to Radio Abundance. Join the movement for Progressive Abundance at YIMBY Democrats dot org. Yes, we can build again. Yes, we can trounce the fascists. Yes, you can be the difference. This is AI, by the way. You think these jokers actually got Obama? Check in with me in a few months. It'll happen. Thank you for listening to Radio Abundance, a new podcast by YIMBY Democrats for America.

52:08 Now it's time for you to join the movement. We're building a big tent, and it's going to take all of us. Join us, and together we'll fight to build America, defeat fascism, and unleash the era of Progressive Abundance. Join the movement at YIMBY Democrats dot org. Senator Elizabeth Warren here. As we all know, housing is at the heart of American life. Number one retirement plan in this country is to pay off your house and live on Social Security. But this reality is looking less and less feasible for so many young Americans. Our problem is basic Econ 101, and that is that we don't have enough housing. And that drives up costs and makes housing unaffordable, particularly for people who haven't yet bought their first home.

52:57 The answer? Pretty straightforward. Build more housing. We need big solutions. We're facing a housing crisis that is not going to fix itself for affordable housing, for economic freedom, and for a brighter future. Let's turn the page with a new vision for housing in America. Thank you for all of the amazing work that you have done so far and everything you are going to do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

53:32 Thank you.