From San Diego to Congress: Congressman Scott Peters on Radio Abundance

Transcript

0:00 Welcome to Radio Abundance, a podcast by YIMBY Democrats for America. It's time to build again, folks. Fascism never made America great, but when progressives build, that's where you'll find American greatness. Tonight's episode features United States Congressman Scott Peters. Congressman Peters visited us live in San Diego for a special in-person sit-down conversation in gorgeous Southern California. Original founder of YIMBY Democrats of San Diego County, Congressman Peters will be joined by the YIMBY Democrats of San Diego County's current president, Manny Rodriguez, and past president, Anjali Hoyos. That's coming up right now on Radio Abundance. Please welcome your host for the evening, YIMBY Democrats for America executive director Steve Boyle.

0:48 Hello and welcome to Radio Abundance. I'm Steve Boyle. We are in-person, in-studio together in San Diego today with United States Congressman Scott Peters. Hi, Congressman Peters. Welcome to Radio Abundance. Thank you for me. Before we talk about you more, I also need to introduce our Radio Abundance San Diego guest star, co-host today. Why don't you guys introduce yourselves? But like, you got to do it to the camera. Oh, thank you, Steve. Yeah, Manny Rodriguez, and I'm the current president of the YIMBY Democrats of San Diego County. And I'll pass it on, Anjali. Anjali Hoyos, YIMBY Democrats' past president from 2022 to 2024. Yeah, so we have YIMBY Democratic royalty in this room, and we are blessed by it. And you've got, you're part of that origin story too, are you not? Yeah, I co-founded YIMBY Dems. I was drunk that night, but we got it done.

1:37 Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I think there's a lot of political stories where you can work that one in. And actually, I would say, in San Diego, it's had a huge effect. It's really affected politics here in a really good way. And I think, you know, pro-infrastructure, pro-climate change, pro-housing, it's been really good. Yeah, I mean, I think I definitely want to hear about how it's affected things nicely, both to praise and boost you guys. Also, I think it's interesting to the audience, but mostly I want to know about the drunken night you founded it. So we were killing time before this. We didn't know what it was. We thought it was just like a reception. And we went to Cowboy Star, a restaurant I recommend if you want a steak downtown. They have a really good wine list and we just were killing time. That's how we killed time. And I showed up and all of a sudden I had to make a speech. So I think it was one of my less guarded speeches, but we were really happy.

2:26 Scott Wiener was there. We had, you know, a lot of good elected officials from around here really wanted to make a statement about the importance of being pro-housing in particular. And it was a really good start to some political effort here. You know, when I was on the city council a couple of decades ago, the environmental groups would come testify against projects just to be sort of anti-growth. And that was seen as the environmental way. And it's not that long ago and it was not that unusual. But I think we really changed that conversation because, you know, if you want to be, if you're concerned about climate, you're concerned about infrastructure and everything else we talk about in this podcast, we have to be, we have to figure out how to build the right things. And we're on offense, not on defense. And that's animated my service in Congress as well as my connections here.

3:15 You know, in the, in the years to come, people will write history books about the abundance movement. And really only a couple of them can use the story of Jimmy McMillan and the rent is too damn high as their opening lead in chapter. Right. So we'll need to find other creative opening chapters. And I think you drunk having steak with Scott Wiener is a pretty good one. Why were you there? Why was he there? And how did that turn into Yimby Democrats of San Diego County? I confess to ignorance about how it came together. They said, show up. So I thought I really thought I was going to show up and wave and then get driven home. But I mean, but why was he there? I mean, you see, obviously, Scott is one of the people who's been thinking about what, what's the, what does the environmental movement mean today? And the way I think of it is, you know, in the 1970s, people with really good intentions notice that we were making a lot of mistakes.

4:08 We're doing a lot of damage and they wanted to put up some hold on barriers. Make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. And that was the NEPA, which is basically said before you make a substantial decision, a decision that might affect the environment, know what you're doing, know the facts and know what the alternatives are and consider that. And that was fair. Today, we have the Clean Water Act, we have the Clean Air Act, and we have a lot of substantive protections we didn't have back then on environmental protection for environmental quality, really regulating the emission of pollutants into the environment and things that affect human health. We have those things. And we have to think about how to be on offense, because like on the energy side, which I work on in D.C., we have to build a lot of energy. We have to build transmission, offshore wind, utility scale solar, hydrogen pipelines, all those things where we need to fight climate.

5:00 Well, it shouldn't be the environmental laws that are in the way of that. We should be on offense as an environmental movement. And I think the same thing we see, the same thing with CEQA in California and what it's done to infill housing, which is probably one of the most environmentally friendly things that a city government can do is sort of develop where there's already cement. And now I think we're really thinking about that as an environmental movement. How do we make that happen? Nice. We did just have on Congressman Laura Friedman, who I think is a friend and ally. Oh, yeah. She's a great add to the Congress, by the way. Oh, yeah. And so we just, and she just rolled out the, I think it's called the Cut Red Tape for Housing Act, and it's a reform of NEPA. And so we had her on live talking about it, and she's making the same point, and you and I talked about this in our first episode, which is we're not serving the environment by not building housing.

5:48 We are harming the environment quite significantly. Now, I mentioned that first episode, so you have been on Radio Abundance before. It is a fantastic episode with Manny. It's a double feature. And, you know, it's a great Scott Peters 101, right? Your origin story is how you think about this. It's fantastic. We don't have to retread old ground. In fact, what we can talk about is that was one of our first podcast interviews. I think we talked in April. I think we published that in May. It's only been five months since YIMBY Democrats from America launched at the very end of March. It is now the very end of August. That is five months. It is insane to think about what's changed on both the Build America front and the Defeat Fascism front. When we spoke, the YIMBY caucus had started. The Build America caucus had not been announced yet. The reform of CEQA in California.

6:36 That's new. And I don't think any of us would have predicted it. The idea that Zora Mondani, the DSA's candidate, would be praising abundance. I can't remember if I said this on the podcast or just said this joke in every Google Meet I've done. But the amazing thing about that race to me is him praising Jersey City building, not from the standpoint of abundance, but from the standpoint of a New York City politician in a competitive primary saying, "Look at what Jersey City did right that we have to emulate." I tried to look for examples of that, of New York City politicians praising New Jersey for things other than being there across the river and found zero. Like, and to do that on building housing is crazy to me. So that's new. I mean, things are changing fast. How do you think about what's going on both in Congress and at the state level? Well, I think it makes sense.

7:22 I mean, I think politics sometimes does follow the facts, and that's what's happening here. And you know what I've found, too, is that in my own career, sometimes you just got to say stuff and see what the reaction is. And there's really not an argument against this, I don't think. I don't think there's an argument against building things better and faster and, you know, particularly in California, we've suppressed the building of housing for decades now. And, you know, people like our guests or co-hosts here are really challenged to find a place. And no city is sustainable under those conditions. So this is sort of an inevitable realization. And I think the faster we get on it in terms of policymaking, the better it will be for all of us. Nice.

8:08 And I swear to God I'm going to bring you two in a second. And actually, I'm not going to bring you in. I'm just going to tell you right now to blurt in and butt in whenever you want. But I do want to ask, I'm just curious, I mean, I'm curious what it is like right now. I don't get to stand in your shoes. I can't watch you on TV. But, like, to be in Congress in this moment in history fighting for abundance. I mean, so there's been a couple of, you know, months since we've talked. And then you come to San Diego in August recess. And now you're in your hometown and seeing what things are like in California. And now you're about to go back to D.C. What have you been working on? What have you learned since you were back in San Diego? And what are you hoping to get done? And what can you get done in Congress right now in the rest of this year? Well, it's sort of three parts of my job.

8:55 One is explaining what's going on. One is trying in Washington to fix it. And third is worrying about elections. Right now. So the month of September is really significant because it's when we do our budget. Usually if we do a budget. You know, I do think that whether we do appropriations this this time is sort of up for grabs. I think the president likes to do everything himself. He even said the other day, he said, I'm the president of the United States. I could do whatever I want. I don't know what constitution he read. That's how he sees it. So but, you know, we have a couple of challenges in San Diego. I think two main ones from the federal government. One is like every place else, the cuts to Medicaid are going to be really, really tough on people. I'm in the district that's fifth least dependent in California on Medicaid.

9:41 We call it Medi-Cal here. So it's a fifth say it's the fifth richest district. Twenty one percent of my constituents get their health care directly from Medicaid. That's a substantial number of people. All the health clinics depend on it. The hospitals depend on it. And what's going to happen is people are going to get their first care in the emergency room, which is going to drive everyone's insurance rates up. It is insane what we're doing. And by the way, all those cuts that we made to the health care that the Republicans made health care, don't even go to reducing the deficit, which was their, you know, their righteousness claim. Right. They go to paying for tax extended tax cuts. So everything's wrong with it. So that's one big thing. The other thing is science funding here. So we're the third leading biotechnology cluster in the country.

10:27 That talent comes from places like the Salk Institute, Scripps Research, UCSD, that compete for and win NIH grants from National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, NSF grants. Two years ago, I think we got $2 billion in the county. One of the, I think, second or third leading in California to do basic research, not applied to any product. And that supports 1,000 companies here who are doing life sciences. Big ones like Pfizer and Eli Lilly, great employers, but most of them are, you know, five, 10-person outfits trying to solve hard science problems with private risk capital. All depends on the talent we develop as Americans and as taxpayers with the NIH funding, which is, which President Trump has promised to cut by 40%.

11:14 Now, this is, you know, this is a little bit like just handing it over to China, which is, you know, not what anyone wants to do, but that's what's happening. The good news is the Senate Committee on Appropriations voted 26 to 3, huge bipartisan vote. This is the first time they've talked back to Trump that I've noticed in a big way, not only to reject those cuts, but to increase funding for science. And so that's the battle, that's my battle in September in, in Washington is to make sure for San Diego that we get that money restored and we get back on to being the leading force for science in the world as the United States. And in this area, also in the Bay Area too, and is also heavily affected by this. So that's my, my, my main focus.

12:00 And then some of the permanent reform we stuff we talked about as well, I think is still going to cook on, but it's complicated by his approach to energy too. Yeah. I mean, the, we talked earlier about things that have changed in the world of abundance in four months, and it is insane to think about how fast things are moving. And I think in a really positive direction, like there is a lot of battle in front of us, but we can take a second and go, okay, things have moved really nicely in four months. And then there's this other side of things. So four months ago, there weren't troops in DC or headed to Chicago and San Francisco. Four months ago, Trump hadn't said he can do anything he wants. I'll give you another quote from the administration, which is opportunity, not democracy. Four months ago, he hadn't dismantled the CDC. They weren't getting rid of COVID vaccines, even as an option. You see, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, they didn't even want to give us the facts.

12:47 Yeah. Oh, but did you see, they've just revised the numbers upward in good ways. Yeah. I'm, which I'm, I mean, I think, I mean, I'm sure those are based on good stats. Yeah. I mean, everyone's confidence is shaken in that. That's really going to be hard. So there are 24 hours in a day. You, and we were just talking with the Congressman Friedman and she's like, look, I need, I need a Republican co-sponsor on this stuff to get it done there in the majority. I mean, how the hell do you prioritize? Like you cannot do all of these. You need, you need everybody else, including us out of government and you out of government helping because a congressman cannot do all of these. There aren't enough hours. How do you triage and prioritize this stuff? Well, I have a great staff and I've got them all running down different things. So I have, you know, uh, one is particularly working on permit reform and energy. Um, and we're just trying to make progress in that.

13:34 You know, we're good. We had another one working on a Medicare, Medicaid and healthcare. Um, you just have to put yourself in a position that when opportunity opens, opens for you, that you can, you can step through the door and, um, you gotta build relationships with the other party. And this is really hard now. Um, for two reasons. One is people don't, it doesn't come naturally to people to do. So I understand, I'm not a, I'm not an engineer, but I understand this math. You need 218 votes in the house. You need 60 votes in the Senate cause of filibuster. So you need both parties and you need the presidential signature. So if you want to get anything done, you got to find people who will help you on that. And it's going to be bipartisan, whoever runs the Congress, because we're not going to get 60 senators on one side. Um, so I understand that. So I worked on developing those relationships right now, though, I got to tell you, they are super, super scared of crossing Trump to the extent that they may not even take a policy position.

14:27 He has not opined on because they're afraid he'll disagree with them. And we got to get past that. All of us were elected the same day as Donald Trump. All of us have an independent job to do. And it's not, it's not personal. If you disagree with the president on a policy issue, that's how it's supposed to work. We got to get back to that mindset. And that's, that's been a real difficult thing, Steve, in this Congress is they're just so frightened of getting on the wrong side of Donald Trump. Let me ask you a question about that. I really want to bring you guys in. So, but I got asked for coming guys. I got, I got to ask this question. I think you'll agree. Actually, the Republicans who are scared of crossing Trump, are they scared because they don't want to lose their election? Or are they scared that if they cross Trump, whether it is from the administration or from a fan of his, that them or their family might be in some amount of peril?

15:15 That I haven't picked up on. I think, you know, I, unfortunately, I think that people are way too scared of losing their elections. And, you know, what, what we have in California is a good system. We should, you know, we should, I think is a good system. It's a top two primary. So if that, you know, if I can't, I don't have to just get Democratic voters to vote for me, I can get independence to vote for me. And similarly, Republicans, you know, like Dave Valadao, who keeps winning despite, you know, all odds, he gets independence to vote for him. He doesn't have to win the Republican primary. He can vote, he can vote for impeachment of Trump and still get reelected because independence can vote for him. But a lot, most states have these closed primaries where it's just, it's just the Republicans, they tend to vote anyway, they tend to select the most extreme person, the most red meat person.

16:09 And now Trump sort of has a veto, I think, effectively, I really do believe that if Trump comes out against you, and you're in a Republican primary, you know, you're kind of out of luck. So they're treading very lightly. And then you see some people who criticize him, they just quit right away. So Tom Tillis voted against the big bill, and then he quit, the senator from North Carolina, just quit. Those are the kinds of people we need to stay, but they're quitting. Don Bacon, my friend from Nebraska, I mean, we'll probably win that seat in Omaha as Democrats, but he was the kind of Republican that, you know, he was, you know, standing with Ukraine, doing the right thing. He quit. And so that's, that's kind of the effect is, they don't stand up to him. And then if they get really frustrated, rather than fight, they quit. And it's just not a good situation right now.

16:57 I see. Well, I want to bring it back to what you were saying earlier, like so much has changed in the past few months, especially with here in California, CEQA, and also, you mentioned all these great and also terrible things like Trump is doing. But also, four months ago, he wasn't forcing Texas to redistrict, you know, and now that's forcing, well, not forcing, I think Gavin Newsom is kind of standing up and saying, this is an opportunity for us to swing back. And at our earlier conversation, we were talking about, you know, housing, and there used to be a time in American history, people cared about how many people lived in states, specifically during the slave era, where people in Kansas, Nebraska would kill each other, just to make sure they could vote and make sure their state had, you know, was a slave or free state. And, you know, I'm curious from you, like, do you think that, you know, with the Electoral College becoming so politicized that states like California might think, oh, we actually need to build more housing?

17:52 Like, I don't care if you're an NIMBY, we need to build more housing because we're losing electoral votes. And now, unless you want to live in a red country for the next 20 years, we need to start increasing production. I think, Manny, that the way I would characterize it is we should keep our eyes on the ball. And, you know, there's a lot of talk about redistricting here, and I think we should really be focusing on what is it we're missing that people want? And one of the things that you talked about is exactly that. Like, why, you know, are we standing up for the people who can't afford a home in California? And we need to be that party. We need to be that party. We can't be the party of obstruction there. I think that's really harmful to us.

18:39 And that's how you win elections, is that you show you're with the people who are voting. And so I understand, and I support this redistricting effort in California. I lament that we have to do it. But I think it's the right response to Texas, and I think it's fighting fire with fire. But let's not lose sight of what we have to do to win elections, which is be responsive to what people care about. Cost is the biggest thing. And that's what Zoran, I mean, forget whether he's a socialist or not. You talk about costs, and that's what we need to get back at. And housing is one thing, but, like, the cost of groceries is on people's mind. And someone said we can't be selling them joy when they can't afford eggs. You know, we need to focus on that as Democrats. And certainly in California and in San Diego in particular, the cost of housing is the biggest obstacle to our continued prosperity.

19:31 And we ought to be all over that as Democrats. Congressman Peters, we know we talk all the time now we need to lower costs in blue states to win elections. But I just was curious if you could just tell us nationally, are prices going up or down? I think they're about to go way up. They're going up, aren't they? Yeah, they're going up. I just think good to get that on camera before they change the stats, and we have no idea anymore. Yeah, they're going up, aren't they? They're going up. And you know what's going to really – because of what he's done with solar and wind, energy prices are going to go way up. This is an abundance issue. For the first time in some decades, we're going to see, I think, a 16% increase in demand for electricity in the United States when we've only experienced 1% or 2% a year.

20:11 We just removed all the incentives that we provided under President Biden for wind and solar development. So a lot of the projects, 300 gigawatts of projects are subject to being canceled. Now, what's a gigawatt? A gigawatt is about enough power to power all the homes in San Diego for a year, 1 gigawatt. We're talking about losing 300 gigawatts of wind and solar, which is the fastest and the cheapest energy to put up quickly. Well, because of what the big bill did, we might lose that. Well, what's – if you look at what China is doing, this is kind of like New York and New Jersey, right? Now, let's look at what China is doing. I don't think China cares about climate change any more than Donald Trump, right? What are they building? They're building a ton of wind and solar.

20:57 They're actually – they are 38% coal, which I would not want to go back to. But they built – last year, they built 80 gigawatts of wind and 250 gigawatts of solar. They've got 750 gigawatts of solar in line to be built. What do they know that we don't know? They're not doing it because they're tree huggers. They're doing it because they want power fast now and cheap. And that's what they're getting. And that's what we're not doing. And it is just – I hate – I don't mind a disagreement in policy. This is just freaking stupid, and it's counterproductive, and it's going to raise prices because all this demand is not going away from AI and new manufacturing and electrification is driving up demand, and we're just not stepping in to meet it. And all you have to do is look at what China is doing to see we're doing the wrong thing.

21:44 Am I crazy, or did we just see a stat this week that China is about to produce more power from solar than we consume in the United States? That's correct. That's correct. And it's not because they care about the Paris Agreement. They, you know, really? It's just so dumb. Why are we so ideological? It doesn't make any sense.

22:04 By the way, more wind. I think Texas is now first in wind and will be second in solar. They have a really good state market. What's that market producing? Wind and solar, right? In Texas.

22:18 Yeah, it's really high need for us to build more wind and solar, and which is why I appreciate the work you're doing with like NEPA and tackling that because, you know, I think of those regulations, it's good to be thoughtful about what we're building, especially if it's large scale projects. But, you know, did high-speed rail need 12 years of environmental review when we know it's good for the environment? We know that this will cut down on emissions and promote a more sustainable future. Why 12 years? You know, why do we need to hire an army of consultants to do multi-thousand page report on how it's going to traverse some lagoon in some minimal way? You know, obviously we want to make sure we study all the impacts, but, you know, there is definitely a point where we've gone too far, and I think we are gone too far in that. And I want to ask you in a second about the CEQA reform in California and what it's like to watch that from Congress.

23:09 These are the experts on that. Well, exactly the setup I'm going to, and the two of you both, I mean, did you ever think that would, did you think that would happen in your lifetime or in the years after you served and during your time of service? I mean, how do you guys think about CEQA in California?

23:26 You know, I think it has served its purpose, but I am really glad to see the progress that we've made on reforming it so far. When I started, you know, I started getting into the Abundance Yimby movement in around 2017, and no one would ever thought to try and have conversations with labor or environmentalists or even social justice folks. And now, look where we are. I mean, I think it's great. It's amazing. It just comes to show that the housing crisis affects everyone, and we all have to work together to, you know, make sure that everyone has a place to live. And look, I'm not asking you to take credit for CEQA reform, but, but, no, but, but I, I would like you to, not, I mean, like, you didn't have nothing to do with it, right?

24:15 You've been, I mean, and a million people, you've put in the work, you've warmed up some of those conversations. First of all, just the two of you to be, the three of you, actually, to be aggressively saying, I'm a Yimby and a Democrat, and to be doing that in 2017, like, that makes a massive difference. I mean, and, and we're just in a different, I mean, this still seems, this seems, that reform seemed unexpected to me three months earlier. So to go eight years early, I mean, this is crazy. So tell us about those conversations then and since. Well, then I think what really helped was the founding of the Yimby Democrats, because we got to talk to Democratic clubs and members who had, actually do have like-minded ideas. And, you know, in the past, when I would say that the Yimby movement was maybe more focused on just pro-supply, we've, we've since changed, and we were able to talk to members and understand what they're going through, like, you know, people, union workers, they need a place to live too, and they can't afford to live here as well.

25:19 So starting those conversations, creating those relationships, I think it was always bound to happen, but it does take time. And what I'm really glad to see is how Manny and the club has continued that movement. You go to a meeting, and you see different people at every single meeting. It's, it's really amazing. People from, you know, different walks of life, different ages, again, environmentalists, social justice folks. It's really great to see. Yeah, absolutely, like, to add on to that, like, you know, it's, if there was no Yimby movement, or back then when there was no Yimby Democrats, I can only imagine what legislators thought of pro-supply people, like, oh, they must be all developers, profit-driven people. And it's just putting faces, like, no, look at it, go to our meetings, it's like regular San Diegans, not exactly like developers, like, we hardly get any developers to go to our meetings, it's just regular San Diegans who care about the cost of living, they know what the facts are, they know what the truth is, and they just want to come up and make a difference.

26:16 And so we bring these San Diegans into their offices, and we talk with them, and we put a face to the movement, and I think that makes, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm no legislator, so maybe I'll ask you, but I think that makes them more comfortable voting for this type of reform. You could tell when people haven't attended a Yimby Democrats meeting yet, because they say that we're a room full of developer shills, and in fact, not many of us actually work in the building industry, it was, it's quite amazing, so it's always fun to dispel that myth. I would say too, like, I did, I did write a sort of essay, we looked back when it was, in the Union Tribune, 2017, about how CEQA was getting in the way of housing, which is great, and I think it was, I think it was a good piece, it's, it still held up until three months ago.

27:06 But I think that really, it's important for you guys, Anjali and Manny, to be the faces behind this. I have a house, right? Developers have a house, and what we need to make sure is that you have a place to live, and you should fight for that, so I think it's, and it's good, it's not, it's not, it's a really constructive approach, too, so I think it's really important that folks like you are leaders in this movement, because you're the ones that are most personally affected by it. Yeah, you said something really interesting, right, because a lot of these conversations we talk about, the changing hearts and minds in the, you know, outside of the Yimby world, you've just mentioned changing the sort of image of who a Yimby is, but you talked about, like, yeah, changing, I think, the Yimby movement, which it seems to me to be a uniquely, potentially, like, Yimby Democrats in San Diego County thing, like, you, like, actually wielding some influence, not in winning hearts and minds outside, not in changing the image, but actually, like, having an influence on the world.

28:02 What the Yimby movement talked about, cared about how it presented itself, and yeah, specifically around, like, the environment, on labor, obviously, I want to hear about, you know, your thoughts on the relationship with labor in a second, but I'm curious about how you feel like you've changed the movement, where you've taken it, and where you want it to go. Again, I can't take all the credit. It definitely has to do with our past presidents, and Manny is the current president right now, but, you know, it's more than just housing. It's truly about creating inclusive communities for San Diegans, but also people who want to live here and want to live in California. So that has to do with, you know, abundant housing choices, making sure that we have complete streets, safe places for, you know, families to walk to, good schools, transportation options. So all of that has to do and or is connected to housing.

28:52 Definitely. I think, you know, housing is what kicked us off, but there is a growing, you know, movement or feeling that the Yimby movement should expand into more, like, urban quality of life issues. Like, yes, we want wider sidewalks, safer streets, safer routes to school. Yes, we want, you know, clean energy, clean air. Yes to all those things. So I think the movement is at a point. There's a lot of dialogue going on. I think abundance helped kick it off. But I think it's interesting to see where the movement will go in a few years. At the local level, I think this is a really critical point, which is people are very defensive about housing because they think it will not make their neighborhood better. And I think what we do and what we need to do is to show, no, housing is what makes that surface parking lot a better place.

29:39 More people walking is better for your community retail. It's better for your stores. That fills up the schools. The schools are going to be faced with challenges for population. It makes your neighborhood better to have people living there. And let's focus more on that. And I think, actually, people are absolutely entitled to know that their neighborhood will be better as a result of this. And that's on us. But I also think, you know, think about more than just housing units is really important. So I think that's a level of sophistication and conversation that you have to have with people.

30:15 And I like to think that the housing that I did on the city council, I can't think of a single one that we did that made it made a neighborhood worse. I think it all improved it. And I think that's a really important approach to have when you're at the local level. When you think about the stakeholders bringing along, and again, it's sort of amazing that you won an election as a YIMBY in the first place. I mean, we talk about the environmental movement. We talk about folks who are suburban. And I'm interested in the labor movement and unions and sort of the relationship there. I mean, the labor movement in California, getting on board some YIMBY reforms has been pretty instrumental and transformative. Daryl Owens has an amazing article about this that I highly recommend.

31:03 And then you hear – I mean, it's also one of the areas where you see the most online flack, not from the labor movements, but from people who think they're speaking for them. I'm just curious about how you see those things together. I think that – look, first of all, labor movement is very important to me. I think we owe people good jobs and high workplace quality, and I think we should stand up for that, and I have. I don't understand – I don't think there's really a conflict here. I do think that in California, CEQA has been a useful tool for labor to get project-by-project improvements in working conditions and in wages. And I understand that, that it's been an important piece of leverage for them. I don't think that's the best way for us to assure workplace conditions. We should be doing that statewide. We should be fighting wage theft and standing up for those – on those issues that are important to them.

31:53 Where you don't have CEQA is in Washington, D.C. And let me tell you my experience there. When we're talking about energy and building more energy, pipe fitters want to build pipes. The electrical workers want to build new transmission wires. And I talked to a representative of the National Laborers International, and he said, you know, we had a project under construction. My guys were working. There was an injunction. We sent them all home. They said, what are we going to come back to work? And we couldn't tell them when. And that kind of stuff is not in the interest of working people. And I think that we – when we talk about getting more jobs, you know, getting rid of the red tape is only to the good. And the other thing I would say is that we want – we talk a lot about how we want good wages, living wages, you know, wages that can support families.

32:44 Part of the cost, you know, the calculus is also what stuff costs. And when you don't build a lot of things, you don't build housing, it's more expensive. When you don't build energy, it's more expensive. So it's to the benefit of working people in particular who, you know, have to worry about monthly expenses more than rich people to make sure that stuff doesn't cost as much. And by building a lot of housing, by investing in science up front and making health care more cost effective, I mean, those are all things that work to the benefit of the people that labor cares about as well. So I think for job creation, it's clear that this is going to be good. And I also want to congratulate labor on being flexible on CEQA.

33:29 I knew it was a hard thing to give up, and I know the governor really pushed hard on it. But I think we're going to see some real progress on infill and that labor is going to get a lot of that work, and they should.

33:40 Organized labor, I mean. I always think, right, you know, who's going to build the homes? Workers. Who's going to live in the homes? Workers, right? Or be able to stay in their home because other people won't be jacking up the price of it because there's so much competition for so few homes. Every time you can live near your job instead of commuting an hour away, that's two more hours in the day you can spend with your kids and your family. And teachers need homes and firefighters need homes. And people who are represented, you know, laborers need homes. So I think let's all work together to make sure this works to their benefit, but it should.

34:13 It does occur to me. I mean, you were talking earlier about, you know, you've got tariffs on lumber and parts and materials. You've got, you know, whatever you think about deportations. I certainly have my opinions. It's going to change the dynamics of the work. What happens if we liberalize zoning and the Trump administration jacks up all the inputs so much we can't build? Like, what do we do then?

34:40 First of all, I think San Diegans think it's reprehensible the way people are being treated. And I will tell you the bottom line is Democrats learned a lesson that people believe in the rule of law. They think the law should be enforced and we should be on board with enforcing the border.

34:56 We should definitely deport criminals and we should make it easier to deport criminals, serious, violent criminals, get rid of them. But what you see and the reason Trump's numbers are in the toilet now around immigration, which was his strongest issue coming in, is they don't agree with treating working people like this. People who are working, who are supporting a family, are paying taxes, doing the right thing.

35:18 That is, you know, throwing those people out of the country is inconsistent with American values, first of all. And also it crimps a workforce that's already challenged. We already have a labor supply issue. You're going to make things more expensive, which, you know, this is also an administration that said they were going to lower costs. No. As they toss these people out, all those things are getting more expensive. And we're going to be less competitive as a country. We're not going to grow. Growth is something that they need to justify these ridiculous tax cuts that they just did. So what they're doing is wrong, morally wrong, but it's also, it's just stupid from an economic perspective. And San Diego's understand that. We had a raid of a restaurant here called Buona Forchetta, which I would recommend.

36:05 It's a nice restaurant in a cool neighborhood called South Park.

36:10 And they went with 20 ICE agents, fully armed, machine guns, 20 ICE agents to this little restaurant. You thought El Chapo or some drug kingpin was at the bar, right? No. They were getting rid of, they were seizing four workers, like three dishwashers and a busboy. And that's who they were getting rid of. Our neighborhoods were no saver because of that. Our businesses were hurt because of that. And, you know, families were torn apart because of that and for nothing, you know, just for a show. And so it's reprehensible. It's certainly not consistent with abundance, but above and beyond that, it's just really a terrible thing to do. I mean, they've got quotas to fill and they get bounties when they grab people.

36:56 And I'll tell you what, that paramilitary force still gets their Stephen Miller bucks even when they grab a legal immigrant or a citizen. They still get paid. You know, and which makes you think whether you're listening to this and you're getting furious about fascism or you're listening to this and you're getting excited about abundance, what can ordinary people do, right? And I think particularly we've got an example of two people out of government that have done incredible jobs and in whose footsteps people can follow, where you've seen their careers and journeys and can speak to what they did so well. So I'm both curious from your perspective what any ordinary citizen can be doing and also what ordinary citizens should learn from these two. And then I'd love to know from you guys how you got, you know, a little bit of how you got into this and what you'd like people to take away from the journey you've been on.

37:42 Not in a bragging way, but, like, let people – they can't follow in your footsteps. They don't know about your footsteps. So it's, you know, I want to know about the good and the bad. But let's start with you. Well, let's start with the people who are on the ground. I've never said enough. I'd love to hear from you what we think we could tell. Regular people to do. Okay, so I'm going to start with my origin story, maybe. Okay. I am born and raised in San Diego. I grew up all over San Diego County because my parents definitely considered middle class. My mom was a nurse. My dad was in the Navy. But we had to move around a lot because we also were a multigenerational household. And I had a wonderful life. Like, I was able to live in a single-family home at one point, an apartment, condo.

38:27 Didn't matter, though. It was still full of love. But we were only able to afford those homes outside of the city of San Diego because that's where the affordability was.

38:40 I went to college and wanted to be a social worker. And I came back, couldn't get a job, also already felt burnt out from being a social worker. And I fell into politics. And that's how I kind of got started learning more about land use and housing and how, you know, the cost of living just really affects your way of life. And I had always lived with roommates. Even in college, I had to, you know, share a room with my roommates because I couldn't afford that much either. And so all of these things came coming at me all at once. Like, why does it, why is it so hard for me to, like, pay my rent? Why do I have to move back home with my parents? Oh, because the cost of living is too high. Because housing costs are too high.

39:25 And actually, there's something we can do about it. So I am very fortunate in the career path that I ended up choosing. I feel like I was at the right place at the right time. But also because of all of my past experiences and how I was raised, you know, my mom taught me kindness. And she also taught me to, like, give back as much as you can and, you know, be good to others. And I'm in politics because, honestly, I really want to do that. Like, I want to serve my community. So, you know, after doing some things on the other side, I got a job with a pro-housing candidate that we got elected through the Democrats of San Diego. And I'm his chief of policy.

40:11 And I get to do land use and housing. But more than that, I've, like, really expanded my horizon and thought about, like, what the housing crisis is and what we truly can do to fix it. So, like, it's more than just supply. It's preservation. It's tenant protections. It's creating safer streets. It's talking to, you know, seniors who are also can't afford a home and they need to downsize and they can't do that either right now. It's talking to students from UC San Diego. They can't afford to live here, so they have to, you know, move back home or move outside of California. So it's all of these things. And one of the things that I will say is that we have to hear from people who are, you know, experiencing this because we only hear from folks who have the time to do it and who are a little bit well off and who don't like change.

41:15 I do want to ask you two things, which is how did you get the courage to get into politics? And, you know, you need – a lot of people, I think, are intimidated because you don't get told that you actually can and that people are very nice and will help you. Like, how did you plug in? Like, it's just like the – this is just tips for anybody who's like, oh, politics doesn't care about me. Like, it seems to me you actually can just reach out to people and start. But it does take a little gumption and it takes, like, a cold email. So just advice for people who are intimidated but really want to get involved. So totally. I had to do quite a lot of cold emails. I also went to a Yimby Dems meeting not at the behest of my employer. They were like, I don't know why they created a Democratic club for this. Not sure it's going to work out.

42:00 Look at us now. So I will say it was people who I look up to, mentors who told me, like, your voice matters. I was definitely a shy person, but I also, you know, decided to go to Toastmasters and decided to attend a club and, you know, do an internship. That didn't pay me anything, but I knew that, you know, if I work hard, I can, you know, maybe do some good. So it's people who kind of – who had the same experience as me and let me know that we need to hear from more people like you. You mentioned mentors, right? And if some – you know, look, we have people listening to this who are, like, pretty poor and accomplished, but we've also got people who are, like, enticed by this and never done it before, right?

42:49 And if you're out there and you're listening and you're thinking, oh, I don't have a mentor, so I can't do that, genuinely email me. I'm not important, even if I've conned these guys into showing up today, but, like, if you email me, steve at yimbydemocrats.org and also email team at yimbydemocrats.org, like, politics is – people need you so badly. They will – and it's also the best way to meet new people in your 30s, let me tell you. Because people just need your help and they really need somebody to agree with them and show up sometimes. And, like, yeah, email me and we will plug you in. Manny, is that, like, your experience? Very similar experience. You know, I also grew up all over San Diego and Tijuana, so, like, lived both sides because it was cheaper for, you know, us to live there for many, many years. And so, growing up, I was like, why is it so expensive to live here?

43:34 Like, why is it ridiculous? Why did my mom work in two jobs just to afford a one-bedroom with me and, like, two brothers? Like, something does not seem right about that. And, you know, as I got older and started getting more research and, like, reading about it and thinking really critically about it, you know, it came to the conclusion, well, housing policy needs to change. And the only movement at the time that was offering a solution was the Yimby movement. And so, I, you know, through my own research, found out that this is a pretty credible movement to be a part of. And, you know, years later, you know, I joined the Yimby Dems. Anjali was president. Anjali welcomed me with open arms. And now I lead the organization. And, of course, people reach out. And I'm always happy whether you reach out on Instagram, whether you reach out to email, get back to you because politics is a numbers game. And, you know, if I can connect with you and it's one more person that will show up to City Hall, it's fantastic.

44:24 And so, you know, we're a very welcoming movement. And, you know, to the point about, like, how to grow it, I think the congressman said something really good earlier about, like, you know, communicating people, like, the issues that matter, which is cost of living. And, you know, communicating, like, I'm working hard to lower the rent, you know, because everyone I grew up with is either, they either moved out of state or they're still living with their parents. And that's not acceptable. You know, we need people to have ownership in this region and to have, like, a good shot at raising a family in a good neighborhood. And so I'm here working really hard to make sure that you have that future to lower the rents, to create more home ownership for you. And we really need your voices because it's not the experience of a lot of voters. And a lot of voters are people sitting in houses and don't understand what a challenge it is for you.

45:10 So it's really important that folks in your situation get up and tell their story. And I'll just say, too, I was deathly afraid of public speaking before I became a lawyer and my boss made me try a case. And I got that far without, like, still being shy about speaking. And you just have to learn to do it, and you can do it. So I hope that you, your example will encourage other people to do it because it's great to have you in the movement and leading the movement. Thank you. We're going to do final thoughts in a second. And each of you will get a chance to say anything, last thoughts on your mind. Also, people can follow your work. But I do want to say, you know, there's a lot of reasons for us to like Congressman Scott Peters. You were very early to this movement, you know, kind of on that tip of the spear in quite a brave way.

45:58 You are accomplishing things in it now. You are also very kind and authentic and show up and are nice to, you know, entrants in this field. Your team is spectacular. But there's one thing I think more than anything else. Do you want to take some more time? I'm going to give you something now because, and I think this will probably come through in the recording, but just in case it doesn't, you know, we met a minute before we started today, right? You and I know each other. It's our first time co-hosting together. And the thing I, you know, and so this whole time I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not doing a good job bringing these guys in. I'm feeling bad. And I, I, the, the overt and also subtle ways that you made sure to give them the mic and the floor and like that, I don't know, maybe, maybe that's very obvious on camera.

46:46 And you're like, thank God he's correcting Steve's faults. Maybe it's just an event producer MC thing that you're like, oh, that's definitely what's happening. But I was impressed by, I thought, that revelation of character. And I thought that was very cool. I just want to hear what they thought. Well, with that in mind, well, you got about a matter of seconds and minutes before you got to get them out here before I get yelled at. So I think we all want to hear, what do you think? What's, what's, what's the parting thoughts for anybody listening? And, and more importantly, how can they, how can they follow you and support your work or, or the work going forward? Thank you for having me. Please show up. I work for council member Kent Lee in the city of San Diego. He's the chair of land, use and housing. And there are many housing policy items coming forward and we need to hear your voices. So thank you.

47:31 Yeah. Thank you for having us over. Thank you. Coming, Anjali. Thank you for coming. Just show up to our general monthly meetings, reach out to us on social media, on email. Say hi to me. You're on the street. I really appreciate that. And just be part of the movement. You know, we want to create a vibrant future for everyone here and make sure that you have a place to live and, you know, be close to the people that you care about. So I know we can all agree on that. And I hope that you join us in that movement. Very nice. Man, can you look at the camera for a second? You did just tell us, if you ever see this man, he has told you to come up to him and say hi on the street. People do.

48:09 He's pretty tall. So you'll see him. Congressman Scott Peters, what do you want to leave us with? Thanks for having us, Steve. I think it's great. It's great to be with these two people. Leaders in their own right. And to follow me, by the way, you can always subscribe to my newsletter. We send it out every Friday. I try to make it substantive about what we're doing if you want to follow that. But I just ask that you be in the movement. And I also ask that you try to be constructive. That this is not something that should be generating conflict. This is something in which every San Diegan has an interest. And let's figure out how to make it work for everyone. And it is true that I think property owners and developers and young people who need a house and people who want healthy schools, we're all in this together. And that's what I'm excited about. And I think it's imperative for us to get it right.

48:57 So get involved and speak up and ask your questions and be constructive.

49:03 Congressman Scott Peters, thank you so much for joining us and joining us here in beautiful San Diego. We hope to see you in D.C. soon. We're D.C. weather the last two days, so, you know, so, you know, it's unusual here. We've been it's been a beautiful August. It's real hot today. I'm a little sweaty. I hope maybe the camera can tell. No, this has been this has been really cool and delightful for Anjali, for Manny, for Yimby Democrats of San Diego County, for Yimby Democrats for America, for Yimby Democrats of Congress, apparently. And Congressman Scott Peters, thank you so much, all three of you and everybody out there for being with us today on Radio Abundance. We'll see you next time. You've been listening to Radio Abundance by Yimby Democrats for America. Join us at the first ever Festival of Progressive Abundance coming up on Friday, January 30th to Sunday, February 1st in Los Angeles.

49:52 Get tickets today at ProgressiveAbundance.com.